{"id":670,"date":"2011-12-28T18:31:36","date_gmt":"2011-12-29T00:31:36","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.bentonelectronics.com\/blog\/?p=14"},"modified":"2023-08-22T16:51:46","modified_gmt":"2023-08-22T21:51:46","slug":"hammond-super-b-midi-project","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/bentonelectronics.com\/hammond-super-b-midi-project\/","title":{"rendered":"Hammond Super B MIDI Project"},"content":{"rendered":"\t\t
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Background<\/h2>\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t
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I have been using the Native Instruments B4 and B4II software for several years.<\/p>

\"Native<\/p>

A piece of software that once loaded into a PC or Mac, becomes a musical instrument. It can run stand alone or as a VST plug-in which can run inside a VST host. That allows several instruments to be loaded at once!<\/p>

As a keyboard player, an authentic Hammond sound is a must. In the recent past, I used a Hammond XK2 for several years played through a Leslie 145. When I discovered the B4 software, an A-B test with the XK2 proved the software was much better sounding. In fact, the same comparison with my 1957 B-3 was astounding. I sold the XK2 and armed with a laptop computer, I began using the B4 as my Hammond. I trigger the software with my Korg TritonPro and route the output to my trusty Leslie 145. The biggest problem with this is no drawbars. I could assign several knobs to the drawbars but I didn’t have enough knobs for the whole set of 9 drawbars. A couple of years ago, I purchased the B4II software that was bundled with the B4D drawbar controller. Now, I have drawbar control.<\/p>

\"B4D<\/p>

Being a keyboard player as opposed to an organist, this setup is just fine. However, being an organ technician, I’ve had the pleasure of being around many different products. One rather rare and unknown Hammond product was the Super B. Built in 1986, it was supposed to replace the B-3000 which was supposed to replace the X-77 which was supposed to replace the original B-3. Whew! I could go on and on about these models and why they failed but that’s another topic.<\/p>

The Super B was Hammonds first digital sampled instrument. As promising as that may sound, it was a major failure. Besides the weak build quality, the sound, although good when playing single notes, suffered from phase cancellations when playing multiple notes. For example, if you played the middle C on the upper manual, then played the middle C on the lower, every time you hit the lower manual while holding the upper, the sound would change. Since the sound generator doesn’t begin to generate the note until the key is pressed, the phase angle between the two notes would be dependent on when the second note sounded. Sometimes it sounded normal, other times it would sound weak and other times just different. This is why sampling a B-3 in a standard consumer sampler doesn’t work. In a real B-3, the tones are free running and so the phase angle doesn’t change. You simply turn on or off the notes that are always running.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t

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So Why a Super B?<\/h2>\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t
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Well, it was Hammond’s first console that had MIDI and looked like a B-3. So with MIDI, one could trigger the great sounds from the B4 software, while sitting at a full size organ console with pedals. In fact, the Super B sends velocity from the manuals so triggering other sounds like strings or piano would work with touch sensitivity. Cool!<\/span><\/p>

\"Hammond<\/a><\/p>

I have been on the lookout for a Super B for a couple of years. Interested more as a project really. Well, I finally got one. FREE! In fact, it came from Hammond. They were going to throw it out. They remembered I was looking for one so they asked me if I wanted it. You bet! So, I saved it from the dumpster. When I received it, it didn’t work. There are some parts actually missing internally. I believe they used it as a source of parts. Anyway, a missing flat ribbon cable used to connect the computer to the sound boards turned out to be nothing more than a standard hard drive cable found in any PC. I found one in my spare parts that was the right length and after some cleaning, it finally fired up. It is still missing the volume pedal and internal MIDI sound cards but the organ sounds work fine.<\/p>

\"Hammond<\/a><\/p>

The next step was to see exactly what it transmits through MIDI. After my tests, I determined that it does not send the drawbar settings through MIDI. Bummer. It does send note info, program changes with the presets, wheel info and button info. So, I need to make a way for the drawbars to send.<\/p>

\"PocketThere is a company called Doepfer located in Germany that makes MIDI products including DIY boards. They have a board that converts 16 analog signals into any MIDI info you program it to do. It’s called Pocket Electronics.<\/p>

\"Pocket<\/a>
Pocket Electronics Example<\/figcaption><\/figure>

According to the specifications, the inputs must be between 0 and 5Vdc. So, I measured the Super B drawbar outputs and guess what? 0 to 5Vdc! Perfect. This means I can leave the Super B mostly stock and just parallel this device to the existing hardware. Another problem is I will need two. There are 16 inputs but I will need 20 for the drawbars. Possibly one more for the expression as I still don’t know if the Super B transmits that or not. (No volume pedal yet)<\/p>

As of this point, I have MIDI’d the Super B to the B4 software and played it as a keyboard. I will order the Pocket Electronics boards to connect the drawbars. I will acquire a volume pedal and determine if it sends expression through MIDI. If not, there is an alternative. There are several inputs to the Super B that can be set as under expression or not.<\/p>

Ultimately, I would be interested in building a PC and locating it internally as a replacement tone generator.<\/p>

I’ll keep you informed!<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t

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Update 1 (10\/22\/2008)<\/h2>\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t
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Today I connected the Super B with bass pedals to my “Live” computer loaded with the softsynths. I loaded B4II and set the MIDI channels so the manuals and pedals all had their own drawbars etc. I plugged the output (N.I. Kore Controller\/soundcard USB) to a TrekII Preamp Pedal and then to a Leslie 122a. I made some tweaks to the tones settings etc. in B4II and played away. In fact, I turned it up real loud!<\/span><\/p>

I am jazzed about this project. Sitting at a full console Hammond and getting the B4II sound is lovely. The sound is really great. As exciting as it is to hear the pedals for the first time in B4, I’m disappointed with the pedal sound. Although authentic, the bottom falls out as you go down the pedal board. Just not enough low end! Hmm…<\/p>

I’m getting the volume pedal next and will see if this organ transmits volume or expression through MIDI.<\/p>

More later!<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t

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Update 2 (10\/25\/2008)<\/h2>\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t
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Today I talked with another organ enthusiast who has also tried using B4II with pedals. His comments were that the pedals were too weak in B4II to us in a real playing environment. I had hoped that it was just some adjustment that could be made since I was new to using the pedal tones. Looks like this may be a real problem. I mentioned to him that running more than one instance of B4 in a VST host may offer a solution. Each instance could be EQ’ed differently or, the pedals could actually trigger a manual in one instance since the manuals seemed louder in the deep bass than the pedals did. Of course, the pedals could trigger another program altogether but that’s getting away from the original intent of a software Hammond organ. I also was just pointed to another Hammond Organ software that I may need to try. Here’s the link.<\/span><\/p>

VB3 The Ultimate Virtual Tonewheel Organ<\/a><\/p>

See you soon!<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t

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Update 3 (10\/26\/2008)<\/h2>\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t
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\"Hammond<\/a><\/p>

OK. Loaded up Native Instruments B4II and VB3 in the Kore Host. I loaded the newly installed (demo version) of VB3 and gave it a run. Though very similar to the B4II, many behind the scenes adjustments are stepped where in the B4II they are continuous. The Chorus\/Vibrato sounds very good too.<\/p>

The VB3 sounds good overall. The key click is especially nice. You can even have it respond to velocity but not in the conventional way where more velocity equals more volume. Rather, they designed in a method of keying the 9 contacts individually. If you play hard, they mostly close all at once. If you play lightly, you can actually hear individual contacts closing. The maximum is 39MS from the first contact closing to the last. Cool feature.<\/p>

The main thing I’m looking for here is the pedals. Remember in the B4II the pedals were too weak. So, I tried the VB3 pedals and…well… they’re different. In the B4II, the pedal tones are pretty accurate, but lose volume as you go down the pedal board. The lo “C” is just not there. Especially when compared to the manuals or a real B-3. The VB3 pedals have good volume and even seem to get louder as you go down. This is good! However, the tone is different. In a real B-3, each pedal keys eight tones. This is hard wired in the pedal switch assembly. This makes the pedal drawbars sound more complex than the manual drawbars. In the VB3, the pedal drawbars seem to sound more like manual drawbars. The volume is good, but in fact, since the complex sound isn’t there, the pedals sound an octave too high in the low end.<\/p>

So, I started up the B4II and I must say, I’m liking the VB3 better. I setup the channels so I could play the B4II on the manuals and the VB3 on the pedals. This certainly makes the pedals better. Louder! I then tried mixing both sets of pedals together and that was even better. This brought back the more complex tone of the real B-3 from the B4II and the louder bottom end of the VB3 made the pedals much better to play.<\/p>

I tried to play one of the manuals of the VB3 on the pedals. See, you can set the 16′ foldback to off so that the 16′ tone goes all the way down and doesn’t repeat on the lowest octave. Unfortunately, the sounds fades almost all the way out as you get close to the lo “C”.<\/p>

So, mixing the pedals of both softsynths seems to work. The pedal volume is reasonable and, because there are two separate synths running, you can adjust them separately. One could turn up the VB3 for more pedal volume and even do some EQ’ing which wouldn’t interfere with the B4II.<\/p>

So far, this is the best a Hammond Super B ever sounded to me. I should get my volume pedal next week and determine if the Super B transmits expression or volume. I will wait on purchasing any MIDI hardware for transmitting drawbars etc. until I get the software figured out. I still don’t like having to run two programs for one instrument! I would hope Native Instruments could fix the weak pedals so just one piece of software could do it all.<\/p>

Update:<\/strong>\u00a0Native Instruments B4 II has been discontinued!<\/p>

Later on!<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t

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Update 4 (10\/27\/2008)<\/h2>\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t
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\"VB3\"<\/a><\/p>

First direct comparison of the two soft organs, B4II and VB3. First, setting the first 4 drawbars to 8 on each organ. Setting the VB 3 to the upper manual and the B4II to the lower.<\/p>

The bass end is nearly identical to both programs. The high end is louder on the B4II, especially the last part of the last octave. In comparison, the B4II almost seems shrill in that last octave. The VB3 is more tame and mellow. In the middle, there seems to be more going on with the VB3. It seems to be more alive. There is more resonance in the tone. After playing the VB3, the B4II seems sort of plain. I find this very interesting. The B4II sound is very good and safe and has satisfied me for many years. However, the VB3 seems a little more exciting. The Chorus even seems to be more alive.<\/p>

I believe the B4II is more tweakable but I’m excited to see this new program. I think I’m going to go ahead and buy it. I would love to try it in a live setting.<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t

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Update 5 (10\/29\/2008)<\/h2>\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t
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After buying the VB3 program, I took it to Church and played it live! In this setting, I’m playing it like a keyboard so no pedals here. I am again jazzed by this program. I didn’t get to play around and tweak it tonight because we just had time to rehearse. I’m hoping this weekend I can go in and play around with it more in the Sanctuary setting. One difference at Church is I play through a Leslie 145 rather than the 122A in my shop. I could certainly hear the difference with the VB3 while playing and liked what I heard. So did the rest of the team! I have also found a Keyboard made overseas that uses the VB3 or B4II as its sound engine. Check it out.<\/span><\/p>

\"Hamichord\"<\/a><\/p>

\u00a0<\/p>

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Hamichord<\/a><\/center>\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t
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Update 6 (10\/30\/2008)<\/h2>\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t
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\"Hammond<\/a><\/p>

Today the volume pedal came in for the Super B. I installed it and checked to see if it transmitted MIDI. IT DOES! Also, I am thinking at this point that the VB3 will be the software of choice. It has the best pedals which would allow for using one program for the whole thing.<\/p>

\"Hammond<\/a><\/p>

\"Hammond<\/a><\/p>

I had the opportunity to “speak” through email with the programmer for VB3 and had a great discussion about his wonderful software. He sure has done his homework. We discussed my issues with the pedal tones and I think we may see an update in the future. Sweet!<\/p>

My next stop is to acquire the MIDI hardware so I can transmit the drawbars etc. So far…so good!<\/p>\t\t\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t

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Update 7 (11\/2\/2008)<\/h2>\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t<\/div>\n\t\t\t\t
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Today I had my second session with VB3 at Church. Having played B4\/B4II for so many years, what would I say stands out with VB3? Vibrato\/Chorus. With the B4II, the vibrato and chorus settings are variable rather than stepped. I usually set the Chorus at a very minimum setting so that it was just perceived. I like having that much control. In the VB3, there are steps to the degree of depth. I have it set to the lowest setting and it is more than my setting in B4II.<\/span><\/p>

It’s not bad as you might guess, I am really liking the additional depth here. Seems to make it more alive and breathing. So, could I just turn it up in B4II and have the same thing? Probably. Both softwares have excellent Vibrato and Chorus. I haven’t had VB3 long enough to decide if one is better than the other with Vib\/Chorus. That suggests that they are both good in that department and not likely any reason not to use one or the other.<\/p>

BTW..I am running VB3 in Native Instruments Kore 2 along with Akoustik Piano, Elektrik piano, FM-8, Pro-53, Massive and Absynth. I use Kore Controller for adjusting volumes of each program etc. No problems with the new addition of VB3 in the system. I have also run OPX-pro and Mtron in this setup:<\/p>